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Post by ammocarbsteve on Nov 11, 2011 3:40:57 GMT -5
Joe... Now you come to mention it LOL... I'll try and do you some better photo's next week sometime...
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Post by ammocarbsteve on Nov 18, 2011 6:39:45 GMT -5
I'll do some photo's later today now I'm back... Heres a rarther splendid Euproops to be looking at in the meantime... Attachments:
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Post by ammocarbsteve on Nov 18, 2011 16:18:10 GMT -5
Here we are as promised... Attachments:
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Post by ammocarbsteve on Nov 18, 2011 16:20:30 GMT -5
woops lol... 30 mm long... Attachments:
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Post by pleecan (Peter Lee) on Nov 20, 2011 19:53:43 GMT -5
Neat specimens Steve!
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Post by Joe Botting on Nov 21, 2011 10:28:59 GMT -5
That is an amazing Euproops... a stonker, as they say. I'm sure the other one is a trilobite, but obviously a proetid rather than phacopid (this being the Carboniferous, and all). It's actualy an extremely interesting find - as far as I know, you jst don't get trilobites in these nodules, at all. There may be some in the Essex Biota of the Mazon Creek, but that seems to be a fully marine community. Unfortuntely our library is closed until April, or I'd just go and check in the Mazon Bible. I'm not aware of any from the old UK sites, anyhow, and have certainly never seen even a fragment of trilobite in the sites I used to wander around in Yorkshire. The only alternative to trilobite I can come up with is a nymph of a palaeodictyopteran, which according to this paper (which I can't access yet) is very trilobite-like in general form: www.nrcresearchpress.com/doi/abs/10.1139/z83-218However, this paper illustrates sebveral, and even allowing for early instars without the wing buds, I really don't think they're the same as yours: palaeontology.palass-pubs.org/pdf/Vol%2015/Pages%20662-675.pdfSo, despite the utter weirdness of the suggestion (which is weird largely because we don't understand why they seem to be completely absent from these faunas), I'm sticking with trilobite. This could be a really interesting find, and worth writing up. But what it means I'm not entirely sure...
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Post by ammocarbsteve on Nov 21, 2011 12:29:48 GMT -5
Peter... Thanks... Joe... Thanks... The exposure 'owed me' a decent Euproops and I got my rewards towards the end of the site finding that particular specimen I think... WOW... It sounds very interesting indeed lol regarding the proetid trilobite and not something you would expect to find amongst Neuropteris and Calamostachys cones lol...and regarding water inhabiting creatures the exposure has done many shark eggcases, few Bellinurus, a couple of Euproops and Cyclus and an imprint of a Rhizodont tooth... So I'm pretty supprised as well... ''Palaeodictyopteran nimph'' ...I did find the wing fragment of one earlier in the year that was Id'd by Ed if you remember right...from an early sap sucker... I know I keep prattling on about Camptophyllia but just humour me right... check that specimen against this specimen positioning the photo's 'side by side' at the same size when your on a PC... I think you will find they are possibly the same creature and there is not just me who has noticed the similarities... Potentially more of this in particular the edges is still contained within the nodule... Perhaps the 'Big Camptophyllia' (Is there only 2 or 3 specimens ever been found including the one below) are infact all what you suggest or are possibly the Palaeodictyopteran Nymph... I will leave it with you until you can view your papers and have access to your library...Thanks for your time... Attachments:
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Post by ammocarbsteve on Nov 22, 2011 4:09:04 GMT -5
PS... Forgot to mention... Lyall informed me about the white substance... ''Interesting to see that white clay (kaolinite) infill. It is often a good indicator that these nodules formed in a predominantly freshwater to brackish, rather than brackish to marine setting.''... Its found on the critters and the plant material... Attachments:
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Post by ammocarbsteve on Nov 22, 2011 4:09:47 GMT -5
cont... Attachments:
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Post by pleecan (Peter Lee) on Nov 22, 2011 16:00:43 GMT -5
The horseshoe crab is a real beauty.... I got one purchase from Mazon Creek biota not half as good as yours... excellent find and very rare too ! The trilobite is also super rare in Mazon Creek nodules.. most of the time the odd trilo part ... congratulations on your finds Steve!
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Post by ammocarbsteve on Nov 23, 2011 10:38:39 GMT -5
Peter... Thanks... It was a lucky day... the crab nodule fell open almost...
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Post by Joe Botting on Nov 26, 2011 21:45:08 GMT -5
It is intriguing, and I do see the resemblance to the Camptophyllia... but it's the posterior that really looks most convincing, to me. Unless there's a lot more buried in the rock (impossible to tell for sure from a photo, but it looks like a nice margin to me), I really can't see it as Comptophyllia or Rochdalia. I'm slightly happier now Peter has mentioned Mazon specimens with trilobite fragments, although I still haven't found any references to them. However, that is difficult when one's library is closed for refurbishment...
I think it needs some arthropod specialist to look at the specimen - epecially someone with access to CT scanning (as far as I know, no Carboniferous trilobite appendages have been described as yet... so it would be rather neat if they were inside the nodule).
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Post by ammocarbsteve on Jun 22, 2013 5:13:35 GMT -5
Joe.... Could you bring this to Lyall's attention when you get chance... I'm not sure what he is upto ...my friend found a Belinurus that has signs of legs.... I know Lyall had one he suspected had legs to... its popped from the underside although we think crushed flat having some upper carapace ' form ' preserved in its shape and contour.... Attachments:
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Post by ammocarbsteve on Jun 22, 2013 5:14:47 GMT -5
Slightly lighter image... Attachments:
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Post by ammocarbsteve on Jun 22, 2013 5:15:32 GMT -5
And I had to photograph this one... ;D Attachments:
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