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Post by ammocarbsteve on Mar 13, 2011 16:14:12 GMT -5
I dropped on today.... Out of all the upper carb fossils you find... wings are one of the rarest and I managed to find one... Its a fragment 40 mm maximum dimension... but preserved quite well... Check it out... Attachments:
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Post by ammocarbsteve on Mar 13, 2011 16:14:49 GMT -5
cont... Attachments:
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Post by ammocarbsteve on Mar 13, 2011 16:16:18 GMT -5
cont... Attachments:
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Post by Joe Botting on Mar 13, 2011 17:53:49 GMT -5
Superb find, Steve! I've never found one of these, and I get the impression it depends on the sites - sime, like Writhlington, have quite a few, but I know of none ever found in Yorkshire.
Looks like dragonfly - is that right, do you think? I know a lot of wing fragments are palaeodictyopterans instead.
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Post by pleecan (Peter Lee) on Mar 13, 2011 18:30:01 GMT -5
That is a neat find Steve!
PL
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Post by ammocarbsteve on Mar 14, 2011 5:34:58 GMT -5
Thanks Joe & Peter....
Joe...I'm not sure on ID... It is part of quite a big wing so dragonfly is a very good possibility...a member of another forum who has Arthropoda volumes 4(3) & 4(4) of the treatise on invert paleo had a look and Stobbsia woodwardiana is a good match although even so you dont have to look very hard to spot some quite obvious differences going on with the smaller veins in the wing to the reconstructions.... Is there a 'certain percentage' match we are looking for or do they usually come 'identical'?...
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Post by Joe Botting on Mar 14, 2011 10:19:27 GMT -5
Good question, Steve... You're looking for a statistical match, really. One of my hobbies is entomology, and with modern species you get a lot of variation in the variation! Some species of leafhoppers have the venation used to define the species, but in others there can be extra veins or cross-links, and it makes no difference. I'm sure the details of individual minor veins in dragonflies are really unimportant, although the general density and average orientation of them will be significant. Looking through the Treatise, my hunch is that nothing very close to it is illustrated there - the basic arrangement of the sub-veins is quite different to anything there in several areas, especially near the front edge of the wing.
I think this is one for Ed Jarzembowski at Maidstone Museum - it could be a new dragonfly genus or species, or maybe not - but either way, he'll know.
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Post by ammocarbsteve on Mar 14, 2011 12:02:16 GMT -5
Joe.... I have heard left and right wings can be different as well... i dont know how true this is.... Thanks for the lead and the information... I will try and follow it up and see if we can get somewhere....''One of my hobbies is entomology'' ...Can I run these by you too, hopefully not overface you with ID's... This was found a few thousand yards away from the new wing in another exposure... It has very fine detailing and I believe is 2 wings together... Attachments:
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Post by ammocarbsteve on Mar 14, 2011 12:02:55 GMT -5
closeup... Attachments:
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Post by ammocarbsteve on Mar 14, 2011 12:03:32 GMT -5
Fragment of a very large wing... Attachments:
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Post by ammocarbsteve on Mar 14, 2011 12:04:04 GMT -5
Closeup... Attachments:
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Post by ammocarbsteve on Mar 14, 2011 12:04:44 GMT -5
Another.... Attachments:
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Post by ammocarbsteve on Mar 14, 2011 12:06:08 GMT -5
One my dad picked up whilst on a collecting trip with me... demonstrating pigmentation & patternation still preserved... Attachments:
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Post by ammocarbsteve on Mar 14, 2011 12:06:44 GMT -5
Closeup... Attachments:
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Post by ammocarbsteve on Mar 16, 2011 5:00:13 GMT -5
I got an ID back from Ed.... palaeodictyopteroid... thanks
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