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Post by Joe Botting on Feb 12, 2011 8:37:49 GMT -5
Okey-dokey, here's one I've never got anywhere with. It's from the early Coal Measures at Batley Brick Pit, West Yorks (as far as I know, Lucy and I are the only people ever to collect from there, and much of it was pretty dull!). The leaf at lower right is 4 mm long, so it's pretty small, and I was confused by what appears to be a petiole at the base of each... Any thoughts?  unidentified twig by joe with a camera, on Flickr |
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Post by paleoflor on Feb 12, 2011 9:37:34 GMT -5
Hi Joe,
Hmm, tough one... I am not too familiar with Mississippian age material. The stalked pinnules could suggest something Triphyllopteris-like, although those generally bore their pinnules at an angle to the pinna (and most species are lobed, although pinnule-shape is highly variable). The photo does not really show venation, which doesn't help. Some Neuropterids (sensu lato) can also display stalked pinnules. Like Neuropteris, Cardiopteridium is a possiblity, being known from the Mississippian and Lower Pennsylvanian of China, North America, Russia and Europe. Pinnules are small (< 2 cm), however, often asymmetrical in shape (which is not really the case here). At the moment, I am not sure about the specimen, but I will take some more time to go into my literature so see what I can find on them...
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Post by Joe Botting on Feb 12, 2011 21:33:11 GMT -5
Hmmm... Thanks for that - some good pointers already. I've not come across Triphyllopteris, but will look into it. The venation is what yuo can see in the top pinnule - there's very little, and none of the fine venation you get in Neuropteris, for example.
It's amazing how different the northern England and South Welsh floras are, and the Yorkshire material hasn't been done in as much detail as others. It's always possible it's something new, but maybe I'm just to used to the Ordovician (where the majority is!). Hope you can solve the mystery, though!
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Post by archimedes on Feb 13, 2011 17:40:07 GMT -5
WOW Very Nice Lower Carb.-Mississippian period Plant
We do find some plant fossils in the Mississippian around me and even very thin Coal lenses, and your specimen looks quite different than anything I have seen
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Post by Joe Botting on Feb 13, 2011 19:25:32 GMT -5
Thanks Archy! I should point out this is early Coal Measures (Pennsylvanian) rather than Early Carboniferous, though - we don't really get many plants at all in the Mississippian around here (at least that I've seen). It does seem to be a quite unusual thing, this one...
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Post by paleoflor on Feb 15, 2011 13:43:19 GMT -5
Not Mississipian? Hmm, than I misunderstood the phrase "It's from the early Coal Measures at Batley Brick Pit, West Yorks", haha. Uhm, thanks for the extra info... I'll go through my books and papers somewhere this week. If anything comes up, I'll report back here!
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Post by archimedes on Feb 15, 2011 22:07:47 GMT -5
So this specimen was collected above the English Upper Carboniferous Namurian A, which is equivalent to the USA middle and upper Chesterian, upper Mississippian
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Post by Joe Botting on Feb 15, 2011 22:20:03 GMT -5
Yes, that's right - as I understand it, it was probably basal Westphalian, although possibly upper Namurian. The bulk of the Namurian is sandstones in the UK ("Millstione Grit"), but the boundaries are not at all sharp.
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Post by ammocarbsteve on Feb 16, 2011 4:26:51 GMT -5
I cant find anything in my books that comes close to that leaf shape... For the 'arrangment' of the leafs on the stem Eusphenopteris is the nearest...
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Post by Joe Botting on Feb 17, 2011 8:08:04 GMT -5
How interesting! Perhaps I'll have to go and have another look at the site if I ever get back to the area. Thanks for your help - at least I now feel justified in being baffled!
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Post by paleoflor on Feb 19, 2011 6:49:00 GMT -5
As promised, I did some searching, and I think this might be a good candidate for your specimen: CARDIOPTERIDIUM From: Taylor T.N., E.L. Taylor and M. Krings (2009), Paleobotany; the biology and evolution of fossil plants [2nd ed.], Academic Press... " Cardiopteridium: Foliage of this genus is known from the Mississippian and Lower Pennsylvanian of China, Europe, North America, and Russia (Gensel, 1988). Pinnules are small (< 2.0 cm), variously shaped (e.g., orbicular or oval, reniform or tongue-shaped, often asymmetrical), and borne on fronds that are at least bipinnate. Pinnules possess a constricted base as in Neuropteris and exhibit a pattern of radiating, dichotomizing veins. Cardiopteridium is believed to have been produced by pteridosperms, but Gensel (1988) suggested a progymnosperm affinity as well." From: Gensel , P. G. (1988) On Neuropteris Brongniart and Cardiopteridium Nathorst from the Early Carboniferous Price Formation, southwestern Virginia, U.S.A . Review of Palaeobotany and Palynology 54:105–119 "The genus Cardiopteridium was established by Nathorst (1914) for foliage consistign of small, variably shaped pinnules with radiating venation borne on an at least bipinnate frond. Pinnules are attached by only one point and therefore are not sessile. Features that distinguish Cardiopteridium from the genus Fryopsis Wolfe (= Cardiopteris Schimper) are the twice pinnate fronds, mode of attachment and size of the pinnules and the overall trends in pinnule shape. " Unfortunately, the figures in this latter paper are very poor quality. Attachments:
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Post by paleoflor on Feb 19, 2011 6:49:37 GMT -5
Hope you can make something out of it... (plate III-1, Gensel, 1988) Attachments:
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Post by Joe Botting on Feb 19, 2011 7:22:39 GMT -5
Thank you! This does look more like it, although it seems to have more veins than my one... but that may be a preservational thing. This is definitely getting closer, though, and you I reckons you might well be right. At least it's something to compare with. Much appreciation of your hard work, and even if it's not the answer, I've definitely learned something.  |
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